It was an interesting coincidence that I came across your Substack Post on Regenerative Lenses today that brought up the topic of “paper or plastic”? Yesterday I stopped at my local grocery store to pick up some eggs, but left my daughters old high school back pack home, which I typically bring with me to haul my stuff home in, thinking I could just carry the egg cartons home, and arrive with them mostly intact. I only live a few blocks from the grocery store and since I was planning on walking, I figured just carrying the cartons was the kindest thing I could do for the planet (I won’t get into the related tangential topic of whether to buy organic, free range, or take the plunge and start raising my own chickens, which would eliminate the need for the bag choice in the first place, but then again maybe I should go down that path?).
My guilt free plan became upset when the young woman packing my eggs at the checkout asked me if I wanted a paper or plastic bag. Since she already had the cartons in hand ready to deposit in the bag of my choosing, I panicked and succumbed to my default answer of plastic – since I recalled my hoard of plastic bags had recently been reduced by my well-intentioned wife who lives 1000 miles from me in a place where all bags cost 10 cents, so she took a bunch of my free stash bags that we have always reused for garbage disposal.
I had a brief discussion with the enthusiastic bagger woman about which is better, paper or plastic, and we both agreed that the ability to reuse plastic for other purposes, made the choice to use plastic relatively simple. I rambled on about how I should have just carried the eggs, but then explained the guilt I would have to live with based on my being to cheap to buy new garbage bags, and decided I better leave the store before I got kicked out for over thinking the bag thing.
The bottom line here I think is that what is important is not the material the bag is made of, that matters, nor even how many times the bag of choice is reused, or what materials and environmental impacts those choices result in. Rather, it gets back to a couple of items you addressed briefly in your newsletter. One being the idea that your proposed solution of calculating the most ethical bag comes from a mind set of looking at us as consumers and assuming at some point we need bags to carry our purchases in. You do touch on asking at one point do we really need what it is we are buying, but that is mostly just a side note in your discussion. I personally have given up on the idea that we can somehow do an evaluation of the impacts of all the products and services and then leave the store with the least evil of our choices. Such evaluations I have found are never complete, mostly depend on guessing about impacts, and in the end justify the continued world view where the planet is one big resource sink designed to satisfy our supposed insatiable desire for more and more stuff which we can keep doing if we just do so kindly.
For me the answer comes basically when we back up and ask what is it we really need, and what we really need we better be able to get the resources locally, and deal with any waste locally as well. Any attempts to make the global shit-show we have as our current economy kinder is basically just allowing a catastrophe to grow worse. If your interested, I wrote a piece that can be found here that talks more about what I think we really need.
Yes to keeping chickens, but not for the self - for community.
The positive impact you could likely have even keeping enough chickens for eggs (and perhaps meat) for 10 people, plus compost production is likely to be far more impactful than individually stressing over every individual element of the global supply chain and how to replace it.
Jay, thanks for the thoughtful responses. I definitely get the community focus and probably should clarify that my thoughts on your post may have been prompted more from frustrations with holiday overloads and frustrations with marketing gimmicks and flashbacks to a previous life where I worked in the sustainability world which proved to be just more marketing b.s. than anything to do with creating a truely sustainable economy or way of life. Tapping into community has been a real big challenge for me, and I definitely have come to realize how lacking it is, and how much I really could use a good dose of it. And on the topic of to raise chickens or not, I get the impact from single user chicken raising versus small scale community farming, but there is something more to the story than just what is more impactful community raised chickens or personally raised chickens. I grow much of my own produce, which has similar community versus individual impacts, but seeing that there are no community members that I know of who share my interest I grow food because I enjoy it, and besides feeding my body, also feeds my soul. Connecting to the plants is some thing just as important as connecting to the chickens, but for now I hold off on the chicken thing until I can commit to the additional time needed to develop that relationship - which is basically just a basic version of the old which came first the chicken or the egg, which in this case which comes first the chicken or the community? And maybe I focus on the need aspect (great to meet another Max-Neef fan by the way) probably again from previous life experience as a process/environmental engineer where the process was fine tuned to crank out infrastructure, with little focus on what do we really need. In my case working in Wastewater treatment plant, we designed systems to make it possible to waste trillions of gallons of water, and coincidently trillions of dollars in profit for the middle men designers and inventors. Not to imply that is your goal, but just maybe a way to explain that just like the chicken and egg dilemma in this case I think a big backing up and asking what is it we really need definitely needs to be much more of a priority than just put out more regeneratively focused infrastructure (again not to imply that that is your goal or focus). Just to clarify, what I am saying is much more about my own Post Tramatic Stress revolving my own past life encounters with the insanity that governs our economy than it has to do with your writing and posts. And I also enjoyed your thoughts on Father Christmas, it is good to see others that question our hallowed newer traditions. I have also felt quite a bit of guilt for participating in the whole santa clause fiasco with my daughters. It seemed to me that it was an excuse to lie to our kids, all under the guise of bringing them joy. I think it also might be the first opportunity I had to come to terms with not believing every thing I am told by the elders. I recall seeing my neighbor all dressed up in a cheap Santa suit while a kid and realizing the whole scheme was fake. Maybe a good thing in my case?? Just a side note I was not able to open the second link you shared on the kinder reality through regeneraterive products and infrastructure. Anyway it is good crossing paths with you and be well and sorry about my rambling response.
Fully understand the trauma. A lot of what i'm working on is about getting the thinking processes right (and also adapting in an environmentally symbiogenic way to a dysbiotic system).
The Regenerative Lens is not intended as a personal tool - indeed I personally believe that making it an individual problem is externalising blame. However if we are to meet the challenges of ensuring that everyones needs are met, then we need designers and inventors to be able to think more clearly about how to create regenerative products - this process is for them.
My framework is focussed more on ushering in the new than rejecting the old. I do not seek to make the existing economy kinder, but to find ways to function within it in ways that can cultivate a kinder reality - through regenerative products and infrastructures. More on that here..
To Bag or Not to Bag.
Jay,
It was an interesting coincidence that I came across your Substack Post on Regenerative Lenses today that brought up the topic of “paper or plastic”? Yesterday I stopped at my local grocery store to pick up some eggs, but left my daughters old high school back pack home, which I typically bring with me to haul my stuff home in, thinking I could just carry the egg cartons home, and arrive with them mostly intact. I only live a few blocks from the grocery store and since I was planning on walking, I figured just carrying the cartons was the kindest thing I could do for the planet (I won’t get into the related tangential topic of whether to buy organic, free range, or take the plunge and start raising my own chickens, which would eliminate the need for the bag choice in the first place, but then again maybe I should go down that path?).
My guilt free plan became upset when the young woman packing my eggs at the checkout asked me if I wanted a paper or plastic bag. Since she already had the cartons in hand ready to deposit in the bag of my choosing, I panicked and succumbed to my default answer of plastic – since I recalled my hoard of plastic bags had recently been reduced by my well-intentioned wife who lives 1000 miles from me in a place where all bags cost 10 cents, so she took a bunch of my free stash bags that we have always reused for garbage disposal.
I had a brief discussion with the enthusiastic bagger woman about which is better, paper or plastic, and we both agreed that the ability to reuse plastic for other purposes, made the choice to use plastic relatively simple. I rambled on about how I should have just carried the eggs, but then explained the guilt I would have to live with based on my being to cheap to buy new garbage bags, and decided I better leave the store before I got kicked out for over thinking the bag thing.
The bottom line here I think is that what is important is not the material the bag is made of, that matters, nor even how many times the bag of choice is reused, or what materials and environmental impacts those choices result in. Rather, it gets back to a couple of items you addressed briefly in your newsletter. One being the idea that your proposed solution of calculating the most ethical bag comes from a mind set of looking at us as consumers and assuming at some point we need bags to carry our purchases in. You do touch on asking at one point do we really need what it is we are buying, but that is mostly just a side note in your discussion. I personally have given up on the idea that we can somehow do an evaluation of the impacts of all the products and services and then leave the store with the least evil of our choices. Such evaluations I have found are never complete, mostly depend on guessing about impacts, and in the end justify the continued world view where the planet is one big resource sink designed to satisfy our supposed insatiable desire for more and more stuff which we can keep doing if we just do so kindly.
For me the answer comes basically when we back up and ask what is it we really need, and what we really need we better be able to get the resources locally, and deal with any waste locally as well. Any attempts to make the global shit-show we have as our current economy kinder is basically just allowing a catastrophe to grow worse. If your interested, I wrote a piece that can be found here that talks more about what I think we really need.
https://placesiam.substack.com/p/no-thanks-to-happy-holidazed-all-i-want
In the mean time best of luck with retooling the Truly Ethical Businesses and don’t pay too much attention to naysayers like me.
Tom
To build on your egg story in this framework.
Yes to keeping chickens, but not for the self - for community.
The positive impact you could likely have even keeping enough chickens for eggs (and perhaps meat) for 10 people, plus compost production is likely to be far more impactful than individually stressing over every individual element of the global supply chain and how to replace it.
Jay, thanks for the thoughtful responses. I definitely get the community focus and probably should clarify that my thoughts on your post may have been prompted more from frustrations with holiday overloads and frustrations with marketing gimmicks and flashbacks to a previous life where I worked in the sustainability world which proved to be just more marketing b.s. than anything to do with creating a truely sustainable economy or way of life. Tapping into community has been a real big challenge for me, and I definitely have come to realize how lacking it is, and how much I really could use a good dose of it. And on the topic of to raise chickens or not, I get the impact from single user chicken raising versus small scale community farming, but there is something more to the story than just what is more impactful community raised chickens or personally raised chickens. I grow much of my own produce, which has similar community versus individual impacts, but seeing that there are no community members that I know of who share my interest I grow food because I enjoy it, and besides feeding my body, also feeds my soul. Connecting to the plants is some thing just as important as connecting to the chickens, but for now I hold off on the chicken thing until I can commit to the additional time needed to develop that relationship - which is basically just a basic version of the old which came first the chicken or the egg, which in this case which comes first the chicken or the community? And maybe I focus on the need aspect (great to meet another Max-Neef fan by the way) probably again from previous life experience as a process/environmental engineer where the process was fine tuned to crank out infrastructure, with little focus on what do we really need. In my case working in Wastewater treatment plant, we designed systems to make it possible to waste trillions of gallons of water, and coincidently trillions of dollars in profit for the middle men designers and inventors. Not to imply that is your goal, but just maybe a way to explain that just like the chicken and egg dilemma in this case I think a big backing up and asking what is it we really need definitely needs to be much more of a priority than just put out more regeneratively focused infrastructure (again not to imply that that is your goal or focus). Just to clarify, what I am saying is much more about my own Post Tramatic Stress revolving my own past life encounters with the insanity that governs our economy than it has to do with your writing and posts. And I also enjoyed your thoughts on Father Christmas, it is good to see others that question our hallowed newer traditions. I have also felt quite a bit of guilt for participating in the whole santa clause fiasco with my daughters. It seemed to me that it was an excuse to lie to our kids, all under the guise of bringing them joy. I think it also might be the first opportunity I had to come to terms with not believing every thing I am told by the elders. I recall seeing my neighbor all dressed up in a cheap Santa suit while a kid and realizing the whole scheme was fake. Maybe a good thing in my case?? Just a side note I was not able to open the second link you shared on the kinder reality through regeneraterive products and infrastructure. Anyway it is good crossing paths with you and be well and sorry about my rambling response.
Here's the link.
https://circusofseeds.substack.com/p/5-questions-for-a-time-of-beginnings
Fully understand the trauma. A lot of what i'm working on is about getting the thinking processes right (and also adapting in an environmentally symbiogenic way to a dysbiotic system).
Jay, It was your talk with Dougald that brought me to your substack. Sorry I had forgotten about that.
Hi Tom, Perhaps I haven't been clear enough with the proposed use of this tool set.
The disclaimer does outline that we should not take on responsibility for sustainability alone.
We need to think in systems, make it easier for the right choices to be made.
I too am a fan of Max-Neef, and wondering how we might challenge Christmas, and to mount realistic challenges to power (https://circusofseeds.substack.com/p/father-christmas-is-real-and-hes)
The Regenerative Lens is not intended as a personal tool - indeed I personally believe that making it an individual problem is externalising blame. However if we are to meet the challenges of ensuring that everyones needs are met, then we need designers and inventors to be able to think more clearly about how to create regenerative products - this process is for them.
My framework is focussed more on ushering in the new than rejecting the old. I do not seek to make the existing economy kinder, but to find ways to function within it in ways that can cultivate a kinder reality - through regenerative products and infrastructures. More on that here..
https://circusofseeds.substack.com/publish/posts/detail/153154215?referrer=%2Fpublish%2Fposts
I hope this clarifies my position.